Kawhi Leonard Proved He's Not in the Same Class as LeBron James
[–][SAS] Tim Duncan Old_Man_Riverwalk21 1283 指標 1 天前
The “issue” with kawhi, giannis, harden and many other stars is that they do not have flawlessly well rounded games, and so there are situations that can cause them issues. With Kawhi, I think the biggest takeaway from this series is that sure he and the team choked, but that the team was lacking playmakers who moved the ball, got everyone their looks, and gave the offense and surrounding players an identity. Giannis has issues scoring outside of the paint, harden is harden, etc.
This is what makes lebron so valuable, and in retrospect why he is still by far the best player in the league. There is nothing lebron can’t do, and thus you can surround him with anything and it works. You wanna complete garbage around him? Sure, he’ll take you to the finals one year and win 60+ games other years. You wanna give him another ball dominant guard who can’t shoot (wade)? That works too. We saw it work with kyrie too, and now we’re seeing him with a top notch big man where lebron is responsible for all playmaking and that works too. The shortcomings of these other stars to me is really only glaring because in comparison to lebron, they have specific roster needs that need to be met to maximize them.
I’m not saying the clippers didn’t choke and that many of us had them as the favorites. But even the people who picked them to win it all can admit that the clippers never really felt like they gelled, and even when their offense was at its best it just felt like it was because of the overwhelming talent they had.
[–]Celtics Swarthykins 93 指標 1 天前
Yup - he really can be literally anything you want him to be on the court. I root for him almost solely because people forget this every couple years. Giannis isn't better. Kawhi's not better. Steph's not better. KD's the only one close (in my opinion).
Scoring wise KD is above him, overall offense as in dictate pace, put players in position etc, hell nah
[–]Cavaliers maqikelefant 91 指標 1 天前
Lebron has a higher PPG average throughout his career than KD, as well as a better FG%. At best KD is on the same level as Lebron scoring-wise. He's definitely not above him.
[–]Pacers notoriouspuma 69 指標 1 天前
What I think he might be trying to say is that KD has a wider scoring skillset than Lebron. While they are both in the top of the league in terms of scoring, KD can get buckets in more ways, whereas Lebron uses a lesser variety of skills to score because he knows he can bully his way to the rim when he wants. Nothing against Lebron at all, he does what is the most effective and it leads to him being more efficient.
[–]Raptors thegoodbadandsmoggy 757 指標 1 天前
People really underrate players here based off their goldfish memory. How do you undersell fucking LeBron. Curry as well, man is so disrespected here now.
[–][HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon logontoreddit 124 指標 1 天前
Yup. I don't support the Lakers but people out here disrespecting LeBron. The way that dude carried Cavs with Mo Williams as the second best player is legendary. I repeat Mo fucking Williams. Then his series against the GSW when both Love and Kyrie went out. He was robbed of finals MVP, they just gave it to Iggy cuz he guarded LeBron and his team won. The man went toe to toe with 4 all stars. 3 of them in their prime after losing 2nd and 3rd best players in his team. LeBron's playoff loses are as impressive as his victories. Kwahi his great, despite this playoffs, the man is 2 times finals MVP. But he never was in same level as LeBron and probably will never be.
[–]Lakers CravingKoreanFood 26 指標 1 天前
Dont remind me all the shit teams lebrons played on. Mo Williams just had to not shoot 30% in the playoffs but he couldn't even do that
[–]LakersChendii 523 指標 1 天前
Curry is definitely the most underrated super star imo. But that's the problem with adding Durant to an already stacked team. Kinda dilutes the praise they earn for winning.
[–]Lakers LardHop 11 指標 1 天前
Imagine if it was Lebron instead of KD on the warriors.
And now that Lebron wouldn't have to shoulder all the playmaking, he'll probably hustle off ball and on defense much more.
Goddamn, imagine him with steph and klay.
[–]Raptors ThaNorth 15 指標 1 天前
Bro, LeBron with Curry and Klay would average like 15 assists a game, lol. He would never need to shoot.
[–]Knicker Bockersunfunny_clown 66 指標 1 天前
There are three players in the league who will guarantee you a great offense: LeBron, KD, and Curry. Nobody else.
Maaaaaybe Luka is getting there, but it’s early for him.
[–]king_chill 50 指標 1 天前
Harden is one hundred percent in that conversation
[–]Knicker Bockersunfunny_clown 18 指標 1 天前*
Perhaps. I don’t think he just makes a whole team offense go nuclear like those three. But it’s close.
[–]Raptors Spicy_Urine 235 指標 1 天前
Hardens biggest weakness is that he is Harden.
These are the takes we love.
[–]Trail Blazers a3winstheseries 123 指標 1 天前
He just didn’t want to write out hardens problems because everybody has seen them “analyzed” a million times.
[–]Celtics manbare 108 指標 1 天前
Yeah I think we all know that Harden's biggest problems are his unwillingness/inability to create offense off the ball and vulnerability to aggressive double teams.
[–]Spurs Koioua 51 指標 1 天前
Harden's problem: Very ball dominant, and has shown not to be a good off ball player, sometimes plays with the intent of fouling rather than scoring, sometimes he plays with a lack of motivation, and his game shrinks often when it matters the most.
[–][LAC] Bob McAdoo Retro_Super_Future 99 指標 1 天前
Kawhi is top 5 in the NBA right now. Lebron is top 5 all time...
[–]47Lecht 11 指標 1 天前
Simply put but true
[–]Cambridge45 1043 指標 2 天前
All year kawhi was getting put up on the same level as lebron. He’s not even better than him when lebron is 35. He doesn’t even sniff peak lebron.
[–][MIA] Jason Williams Paralta 378 指標 1 天前
It made me mad for so long that people thought this way. Lebron is miles ahead of everyone. It just doesnt become super obvious until the playoffs. They were calling kawhi a surgeon but its lebron that dissects defenses.
[–]Raptors dhillonaire 54 指標 1 天前
Before last year it was KD and Curry, and this time it was Kawhi.
[–]Lakers samg990 173 指標 1 天前
Id say even jokic was better than him this playoffs
[–]Raptors SwissDecaf 119 指標 1 天前
You can put Kawhi on a good team and ask him to be a Lebron stopper, and he might achieve that sometimes. That is impressive.
He is not on the same level as Lebron, never was.
[–][CHA] Malik Monk CLTwolf 41 指標 1 天前
Kawhi’s defense is also massively overrated by a lot of fans ever since 2014. If you watched him in the nuggets series he was absolutely atrocious off the ball and not any sort of lockdown defender on the ball. I think his defensive reputation is a big part of why some people considered him the best player in the league
[–][GSW] Klay Thompson crRNA 10 指標 1 天前
He didn’t deserve the dpoy one of those years either. Draymond has more first place votes.
[–]Bucks kesakko 8 指標 1 天前
Nobody in this league is close to LeBron. He could retire today and we can come back in ten years and I would guarantee that everyone (except Doncic maybe) never got close to what he did.
[–]MavericksAnansispider 382 指標 2 天前
He’s not. Fans boosted him to the high heavens for that championship run.
[–]Basketball Nutrition 196 指標 2 天前
I mean, we can't just handwave a championship run, but I do agree. especially when people try to talk about him already being a top 15 all time player when it's only been like four or five elite level years total.
[–]Nuggets GoyathlayA 13 指標 2 天前
It's really just 3 years of being a top 5 player lol
2015-2016 he was good but it's hard to put him in that category yet.
He has 4 years of being All-NBA level
[–]Spurs Mycatsnameisreddit 24 指標 1 天前
He was second in MVP voting, first team all nba and DPOY in 2015-2016 lmao
[–]Mavericks Anansispider 153 指標 2 天前
His run was good, but to be in the top echelons all time especially all time you need to add a lot more to that resume. Hell I would even say he has a lot of ground to catch up to Steph Curry before he even can think about touching Lebron
[–]Basketball Nutrition 44 指標 2 天前
agreed. two MVPs plus the chips make it pretty tough there. I get that Kawhi is like the slower, stronger spiritual successor to MJ on the court, but it's literally only been four years, ya know? he's awesome, obviously, but people gotta relax. I think that injury (where the Spurs were right from the beginning) just takes away too much athleticism for him to be as good as he could otherwise be. that said, no one should be making excuses about how "tired" he was in that game, considering all the time off, all the load management, and the fact that Jokic and Murray were playing every other day around 40 minutes for like three weeks. lol
[–]Roxy-is-a-good-girl11 指標 1 天前
Clippers should figure out a trade with OKC for Chris Paul.
Gets CP3 home to LA. Proven leader and playmaker. His contract is nothing to Clips ownership if it get them a ring.
Plus the storylines would be awesome.
[–]Knicks Highway-Sixty-Fun 97 指標 2 天前
If Lebron can win this championship, he's right. We and the media elevated Giannis and Kawhi to Lebron's level this year, perhaps a little prematurely.
These playoffs have so far proven that Lebron James is the one true king of the NBA... for now..
[–]Lakers ZAA136 192 指標 2 天前
Nah even if he doesn’t win the championship he’s right
[–]Raptors Fitzyy23 62 指標 2 天前
It’s hilarious how quickly this sub changes their opinion
[–]Lakers vicente8a 62 指標 1 天前
Because this sub is filled with thousands of people. It’s not one opinion.
[–]Granpa0 1502 指標 2 天前
Anyone who ever thought Kawhi is on Lebron's level doesn't know basketball. He's a great basketball player, but he's not a leader, his game doesn't make his teammates better. Kawhi leaves a team, they are still playoff contenders, Lebron leaves a team, they go from championship contenders to the lottery. It's not even close, it never has been.
[–]East Delanorix 246 指標 2 天前*
I agree, but in fairness, the Raptors were much better than the Clippers.
[–]Nuggets ndarwincorn 637 指標 1 天前
lol this is peak hindsight bias.
[–]RocketsC0stcoWholesale 186 指標 1 天前
Seriously lmao. Clippers are stacked, they just didn't play to their potential and got beat by an amazing team on absolute fire (can we please give the nuggets some credit too?).
NOBODY thought the Raptors would sniff the finals whereas the Clippers were about to be pre-emptively crowned the champs before this series.
Everyone is pretending the Clippers team is trash when in reality they choked but will still be contenders next year because of their stacked ass team.
[–]Cavaliers Alohalhololololhola 124 指標 1 天前
Did you see the Cavaliers when Lebron sat ??? It was literally Bench players and G leagues. We even dumped most of the players for picks to other teams and they are either so bad they are out of the league or coming off the bench.
[–]Clippers Reynbuckets 71 指標 2 天前
When Raptors traded for Kawhi, they already had all the complimentary pieces they needed to compete. He was legitimately the missing piece. When Lebron joined Cleveland. They were not a competitive team. So they had to retool on the fly. They built a team around Lebron. This meant that as soon as Bron left, that team was bound to struggle. Same thing would happen to current Lakers if Bron dipped, cus they are built around him. Clippers and Raptors were never built around Kawhi. He joined them after they already were good. Both are great players.
[–]TexWinter21 64 指標 2 天前
The more I think about it. I think any top 7 player could hop on the raptors and win the championship this year or last year. But yet the media gives kawhi all the credit
[–][TOR] OG Anunoby IamSofakingRAW 12 指標 1 天前
I don’t think so lol. I don’t think we win with any one other than KD, Kawhi or Lebron. The defensive intensity of the semi finals and Conf Finals are something I don’t think just anyone could slot in and win. Our whole team was scared half of the Philly series and Kawhi had to carry us
[–]Raptors Smalldick420 67 指標 2 天前
I mean, the man averaged like 34 and 9 and singlehandedly dragged us passed the sixers. Then the series against the bucks flipped when he started to shut down giannis. Last year during the playoffs, he was the best player in world. Just because the clippers CRASHED AND BURNED IN A HORRIBLE ENTERTAINING FASHION does not mean people get to discredit one of the greatest playoff runs of all time by an inpidual player.
[–]Knicker BockersTormund_Metsbane 44 指標 2 天前
People on this sub have the memory of like 2 weeks so i'm not surprised people are saying he's trash now.